This Stupid Government.....

Life with the Lions

Well-known member
Over 12 million people have flown Into this country since the start of 'lockdown'. I heard the figure last week on the news stated at over 18 million but I can't find that.

I'm sorry T.D but that Is gross negligence any way you look at It. People were not allowed to see their Mum's, but all and sundry could fly Into the country and then go on their way unopposed.

With advice like that from SAGE and their continued Insistence that International travel has made no difference to our plight (as well as the fact that all their predictions even their best case scenarios are way off the mark) It Is clear to me that they are not fit or capable to have the amount of Influence or power that they have. I do genually doubt, just like most public sector managers or people In positions of Infulence that receiving public funding, that many of these people actually know fuck all short of their own pre-concieved opinions.

As for our Government, Johnson may have been trapped between a rock and a hard place (and obvioulsy he needs the advice of those who are qualified In these sorts of matters), but his and Hancock's continued Insistence of following 'the science' (a devious term as there Is no such definitive thing, It's selected, partial science) has allowed them to constantly and wilfully defer to and hide behind a rediculous amount of these so called 'experts', many of whom are qualified In made up subjects that are designed to sneer at the working class, just so that they (the government) can avoid making the tough but necessary decisions required of them for fear of being held to account for them, called nasty names by people who hate them anyway and more concerningly, damage to their psudo liberal credentials that are so Important In their left wing metropolitan social circles.

None of these Conservative cabinet members want to stop the flow of foreigners Into this country and Sage gave the Conservatives the chance to keep up their pretence of pretending they are tough about our boarders and Boris gladly snatched at It with both hands.
This. 100%
 

Life with the Lions

Well-known member
The 'official' stance is this:
The minutes suggest that, at this early stage in the pandemic, consideration had not yet been given to quarantining arrivals. The minutes also state that “NERVTAG does not advise port of entry screening, irrespective of the current limited understanding of the epidemiology”. This advice was supported by SAGE on the basis that “Temperature and other forms of screening are unlikely to be of value and have high false positive and false negative rates”.
Was this decision made by the scientists, or Johnson, or both? Either way, it was the wrong decision to make!
I'm not an epidemiologist or a even a virologist, but the problems with temperature screening are well known. It's also a fact that border closures themselves and quarantine don't work unless your country has traditionally strong borders (we don't, disgracefully) and is willing is instigate draconian lockdown measures (our country pretty much rejected these when the OB started them).
Australia and New Zealand, two islands like ourselves, instigated full border/lockdown measures, and their Covid intake was minimal. Granted, their populations are nowhere near our numbers, but percentage wise to their numbers, it was still very low!
Border closures might slow the arrival of new variants, but they won't eliminate them. The Indian variant might well have arisen in Chipping Norton rather than Delhi. If we'd sequenced it first here in the UK (likely as our screening is pretty much the envy of the world) it would be known as the 'Chipping Norton variant'.
Like I said in my post, I agree with you, but it would have saved a lot more lives whilst the scientists were developing the vaccine.
There are also serious legal and ethical implications of refusing entry to the UK for UK nationals. If you're closing borders to a virus, this means that they must be completely closed. No entry for medical treatment, visiting dying relatives or anything. No entry for medical personnel, technicians, servicemen and women on leave. This is before we factor in non-UK nationals and food delivery drivers etc. etc. At the early stage we didn't have testing capacity to test arrivals and testing doesn't pick up every positive case.
I get all that, but people who become politicians can one day become part of Government, and one of these politicians can end up becoming Prime Minister! Sometimes, tough decisions have to be made, and in the case of preventing someone from flying in to visit a dying relative, then “the needs of the many, out weigh the needs of the few, or the one.” If politicians (or Prime Ministers) can’t or won’t make tough decisions in a global pandemic, then why take a position like that in the first place? We have a Government to lay down rules that we might not like, but still have to abide by them!
Perhaps the scientists decided that closing borders would cause more problems than it solves. Over 70% of PPE was imported at this stage. We needed to import chemical precursors for the PCR tests, etc. etc.

The PPE situation is more complicated. We had a huge stockpile of PPE, but it turned out that the pandemic wasn't quite the one that civil servants had prepared for. They were ready for an influenza pandemic in which infected people get obvious symptoms. Not one in which the vast majority of infected people show few symptoms.

There is also the issue of using the wrong PPE. Wearing PPE that's not suitable can make things worse. You trust in it, but it's not doing the job that you think it is. The scientists said in March 2020. ' NERVTAG does not recommend PPE for professional staff exposed to healthy individuals from at-risk areas" SAGE endorsed this advice.'
Its been well documented that the NHS were severely let down by this Government (and by previous Governments as well), by not investing in the PPE that was needed, but if you only have a small smattering of cases initially (due to no one being allowed in or out of the country), it makes it less difficult and stressful for nurses working on the front line to deal with the situation!
The govt. has made mistakes. So have scientists, the media and the general public. With few exceptions (many care homes and conspiracy nut-jobs) I think these mistakes were down to a lack of data or a poor interpretation of that data.
I agree with that, particularly with some idiotic members of the general public, who didn’t take this pandemic seriously from the off, but I still think the Government could have been more decisive in their decision making. Take the current situation regarding holidays abroad: the Government are now saying you can go to amber lit countries, but the status in those countries could change very quickly! SO TELL PEOPLE NOT TO TRAVEL FULL STOP!!!

It isn’t fair for families abiding by the Government’s current rules, to only go on holiday to green lit countries, if those countries suddenly become red, and holidaymakers are told they have 48 hours to high tail it home! Then, to add insult to injury, they have to pay out thousands of pounds for the ‘privilege’ of self isolating for 10 days in a Government approved hotel! WTF?

The problem is, the Government are frightened to be seen as the nasty bad guy in all of this. They don’t want to come across as unsympathetic with the electorate, but changing the goal posts every five minutes does not show true leadership, and just makes the people think that this Government has one eye on Covid, and the other on the next General Election in 2024!

I have news for Mr. Johnson and Co. The people of this nation are already fed up with a situation that has gone on for nearly 18 months! They’ve done as they were told (for the most part), endured three lockdowns, seen businesses fail and people lose their lives and jobs and suffer mental health issues! Now there’s talk that Freedom Day might be pushed back by a couple of weeks, even though the vast majority of the country have had at least one Covid vaccine!

Andrew Lloyd Webber has already announced that he will ‘go to the ball’ and open his musical production of Cinderella after June 21st, and is happy to be arrested if Freedom Day is delayed, and I don’t think he will be the only one prepared to do this. It’s very possible that this Government could be facing a people backlash of epic proportions come June 21st, and that is not something they want, and I doubt very much Johnson wants either!

So sort this out, Johnson, before the people sort it for you!
 

tony_dolby

Well-known member
"Australia and New Zealand, two islands like ourselves, instigated full border/lockdown measures, and their Covid intake was minimal. Granted, their populations are nowhere near our numbers, but percentage wise to their numbers, it was still very low!"

Indeed, but Australia and New Zealand have strong existing border policies. They are also not as 'connected' as we are. They are also still in a cycle of severe lockdowns as they have found that COVID cannot be kept out of the country.
 

Peckham Lion

Well-known member
Now there’s talk that Freedom Day might be pushed back by a couple of weeks, even though the vast majority of the country have had at least one Covid vaccine!
This attitude is half of the problem. If bods listened to what was said they'd know that without having both vaccines you are not safe to go about your business. The same fucking people want to go travelling abroad to countries that still have high infection rates and low vaccination numbers. You can blame Boris and Co all you like, they've got things wrong but you can't account for selfishness and stupidity.
 

Peckham Lion

Well-known member
It isn’t fair for families abiding by the Government’s current rules, to only go on holiday to green lit countries, if those countries suddenly become red, and holidaymakers are told they have 48 hours to high tail it home! Then, to add insult to injury, they have to pay out thousands of pounds for the ‘privilege’ of self isolating for 10 days in a Government approved hotel! WTF?
How about they fuck off the holiday abroad like most able minded people will do!
 

Stompie

Well-known member
How about they fuck off the holiday abroad like most able minded people will do!
I don't think people should be able to go abroad on holiday. Not for a while yet and certainly not why we are still being restricted at home. I ain't got a passport so can't go away anyway, but I can't understand the need to rush off to a place that closes at 10 and you have to mask up and social distance. That ain't a holiday to me.

But I agree with him about the Governments fuck up with Portugal. They told people It was ok to travel, they were happy to let the football fans go and then all of a sudden, with no evidence based justification decided that It needed to go back to amber with very little warning. I think It was 3 people In 100,000 who tested positive at their main airport upon their departure back to the U.K.

Not only does this royaly fuck up the people and cost them a small fortune, It's caused no end of grief to the airline Industry (my heart doesn't bleed for them, but It's the knock on effect In terms of jobs and revenue and the commitments already made) and the people In the resorts of Portugal who rely on tourism and had got everything ready for the arrivals (I know the people of Portugal are not our governments concern but at the same time they didn't behave decently towards them after giving them notice we were coming).

If It was fine one week, when little changed why was It not fine the next? Don't forget their was an air of optimism from the government about travel and even a slight air of encouragement with more countries soon set to follow Portugal, giving hope to many people and the narrative was that holidays would soon be back up and running.

I can't see why Boris and co can't just stick to a position Instead of peddling hope before pulling the rug away from under us.

Zamo knew the score. If It ain't safe or suitable, Boris shouldn't try and placate or pander to the public. Just Say No!

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Saxon Lion

Well-known member
Agreed.

Vaccination is the way forward, and it’s more than helping save lives. However, had Johnson closed the UK borders last November, when he and the rest of the world knew the virus was spreading from China, the UK might have lost a hell of a lot less people!
Yes, and if my auntie had bollocks , she’d be my uncle. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
 

Life with the Lions

Well-known member
This attitude is half of the problem. If bods listened to what was said they'd know that without having both vaccines you are not safe to go about your business. The same fucking people want to go travelling abroad to countries that still have high infection rates and low vaccination numbers. You can blame Boris and Co all you like, they've got things wrong but you can't account for selfishness and stupidity.
Agreed.
 

Life with the Lions

Well-known member
What are they going to do, vote labour?
Of course not! Never ever voted for Labour, even during the ‘wonderful’ Tony Blair years!

I‘m not a Tory, Liberal, Green, SNP or any other voter, either!

I don’t vote! Some say you can’t have a moan if you don’t vote, but if I put a cross on the ballot box, I know deep down it’s not going to count for anything in the long run! All politicians are the same: promise you what you want to hear, get into power, and then do an abrupt 180 degree turn!

Just ask all the old Labour Northerners who voted Johnson into power in 2019, if they’re happy with the switch they made?

Or ask all the Manc cunts how their Northern Powerhouse plan is going? You know, the one that was started up by the then Chancellor, George Osborne, about 6 years ago before his boss, Cameron, legged it for the hills, after losing the Brexit vote!

Fucking politicians!

Oh, and the “before the people sort it for you!” bit was in reference to Lloyd Webber’s stance that he will open his theatre on June 21st, even if he’s arrested for doing so.

As I said, if Freedom day is postponed, there are going to be a lot more people like Lloyd Webber taking matters into their own hands!
 

Life with the Lions

Well-known member
Yes, and if my auntie had bollocks , she’d be my uncle. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
It wasn’t even hindsight!

The fuckers knew the virus was spreading from country to country, from November 2019! Did they think it would just stop when it got to our shores?

If the virus could have had a 20 foot high banner, with the words, “I’M ON MY WAY TO YOU!” in pink flashing neon lights, Johnson and the scientists would have still not seen it!
 

Fashthebash

Active member
Haven’t seen my elderly mum in Ireland since last March.. most of their pubs still shut as well. We burned tonnes of cattle cos of foot and mouth, they nailed it and hardly had a case. We need to get a grip and fucking man up ( or guy up 😳)
 

tony_dolby

Well-known member
It wasn’t even hindsight!

The fuckers knew the virus was spreading from country to country, from November 2019! Did they think it would just stop when it got to our shores?

If the virus could have had a 20 foot high banner, with the words, “I’M ON MY WAY TO YOU!” in pink flashing neon lights, Johnson and the scientists would have still not seen it!

The WHO first designated this novel coronavirus as a public health emergency on 30th January 2020. At this time there were only 98 reported cases and no deaths outside China.
 

Life with the Lions

Well-known member
I don't think people should be able to go abroad on holiday. Not for a while yet and certainly not why we are still being restricted at home. I ain't got a passport so can't go away anyway, but I can't understand the need to rush off to a place that closes at 10 and you have to mask up and social distance. That ain't a holiday to me.

But I agree with him about the Governments fuck up with Portugal. They told people It was ok to travel, they were happy to let the football fans go and then all of a sudden, with no evidence based justification decided that It needed to go back to amber with very little warning. I think It was 3 people In 100,000 who tested positive at their main airport upon their departure back to the U.K.

Not only does this royaly fuck up the people and cost them a small fortune, It's caused no end of grief to the airline Industry (my heart doesn't bleed for them, but It's the knock on effect In terms of jobs and revenue and the commitments already made) and the people In the resorts of Portugal who rely on tourism and had got everything ready for the arrivals (I know the people of Portugal are not our governments concern but at the same time they didn't behave decently towards them after giving them notice we were coming).

If It was fine one week, when little changed why was It not fine the next? Don't forget their was an air of optimism from the government about travel and even a slight air of encouragement with more countries soon set to follow Portugal, giving hope to many people and the narrative was that holidays would soon be back up and running.

I can't see why Boris and co can't just stick to a position Instead of peddling hope before pulling the rug away from under us.

Zamo knew the score. If It ain't safe or suitable, Boris shouldn't try and placate or pander to the public. Just Say No!

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leFerne

Well-known member
Haven’t seen my elderly mum in Ireland since last March.. most of their pubs still shut as well. We burned tonnes of cattle cos of foot and mouth, they nailed it and hardly had a case. We need to get a grip and fucking man up ( or guy up 😳)
I've never thought about this before but you've come up with a genius idea. Burn down Manchester, Bolton and Leicester and we'll be ok to reopen on 21 June.