This Stupid Government.....

Phlion54

Well-known member
Just been announced by bojo & the clowns that after deep conversations with the rest of Europe that we can only visit countries that voted for us in the Eurovision song contest....no grey areas there then..
 

Wandering star

Well-known member
Not heard seen any reports/news of care home staff facing criminal charges?
can you give evidence? Charges for what?
and for what it's worth it is not mandatory for care home staff to have the jab,I firmly believe they should,but it is still up to the individual.
if you impose expect resistance,discuss expect agreement!
Was a manager in my time and this was always my mantra,99% of the time the second option was always the better one,not always successful some people will never accept change but generally for me it invariably got results.
 

tony_dolby

Well-known member
Not heard seen any reports/news of care home staff facing criminal charges?
can you give evidence? Charges for what?
and for what it's worth it is not mandatory for care home staff to have the jab,I firmly believe they should,but it is still up to the individual.
if you impose expect resistance,discuss expect agreement!
Was a manager in my time and this was always my mantra,99% of the time the second option was always the better one,not always successful some people will never accept change but generally for me it invariably got results.

 

Wandering star

Well-known member
I stand corrected.
was unaware of this.
Care seems to be the "key" word here, if you are employed as a carer surely your main responsibility is to try and keep individuals safe.
By having the vaccine you are making the choice to keep people in your care safer,surely a given?I
Be very interesting to see outcome could be a defining judgement.
 

The German Herman

Well-known member
Just been announced by bojo & the clowns that after deep conversations with the rest of Europe that we can only visit countries that voted for us in the Eurovision song contest....no grey areas there then..
Boris is pm so the buck stops with him, I get that, Do you get the fact that if there was a general election tomorrow he would win by a landslide again, The party you love hate the British people, That's a bit of a problem with the voter's.
 

Stompie

Well-known member
Boris is pm so the buck stops with him, I get that, Do you get the fact that if there was a general election tomorrow he would win by a landslide again, The party you love hate the British people, That's a bit of a problem with the voter's.
German what you on about? It's the British public who are In the wrong, not the Labour party. The working class are far too thick to know what's good for them and It's those wonderful people In momentum who are tirelessly working to ensure the future of this nation. Even If the oiks are ungrateful, Starmer and Dianne's noble cause will not cease until we are all saved from the perils of home ownership and the burden of earning a decent wage.
 
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tony_dolby

Well-known member
Taiwan now seeing a rise in cases following their admission that border closures and quarantine are not enough. Anyone who thinks that this approach would work in the UK is mental. Taiwan is in a perpetual state of military emergency and has a very law-abiding and compliant population. The OB's strict measures here lasted about 3 days and stopped when they were reminded by Patel that stopping people and asking them where they are going is not British.

No doubt we must improve our border security. But you can't keep a virus out for ever. Vaccination is the way forward.
 

wellerwasbest

Well-known member
.....couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery!

A bloke on TalkRADIO yesterday told an amazing story about how useless and disorganised the Government approved agencies are, when it comes to dealing with the Covid crisis!

Want to know why this Indian variant is spreading so quickly? Read on.

This bloke, his sister and their 80 year old dad, flew on a Lufthansa plane from South Africa (via Frankfurt) to Heathrow. Upon arrival, they were told they would be spending their quarantine in a hotel, not too far away.....

Gatwick!

They boarded a packed bus that included other passengers from different flights, and the bus set off! What should have been a 45 minute journey, on a good, light traffic day (or maybe an hour to 75 minutes on a heavier traffic day) took 5 AND A HALF HOURS!!!!!

The reason? Because the bus had to make a series of stops, to drop the other passengers to other hotels along the way.....

ALL OF THEM DOWN THE M3!!!!!

During the trip, no passengers had access to toilet facilities and none of them were given any water!!!!!

The cost of a 10 day quarantined stay in this Gatwick hotel for this bloke, his sister and their dad, came to £3,000! They somehow managed to get a discount down to that amount, as it should have cost them £1,700 each!!!

Then, to top it all off, within a couple of days of being in quarantine, the dad felt ill and was diagnosed with having Covid! As his son said, the number of people his dad had come into contact with, at the airport, would now be on other planes, going to different worldwide destinations, as well as those in Heathrow airport who were picked up by loved ones, living in the UK! The son reckoned his dad must have bumped into around 30 people during the bus trip alone, and who were now residing at all those hotels, potentially spreading Covid to other hotel guests!

And all this happened in just one day!

Hope to God this isn’t happening every day!

How the fuck does the government not have one person at the helm, co-ordinating the different companies they have employed, to carry out a plan to get passengers from A to B, in the safest possible way? To start with, how about testing these passengers for Covid before they leave the airport, instead of them just going home and trusting they will self isolate properly? How about putting the passengers from one plane onto one bus, going to one hotel destination? Why not charter buses that have toilet facilities, and which have a generous supply of bottled water on board, especially if you have multiple drop offs to do?

This is all, basic, common sense stuff!

If there is a person co-ordinating this shit show, then he/she should be sacked immediately, and someone more competent put in their place. I was so angry hearing this bloke’s story, and amazed that we, the public, put these clown ministers into jobs like these, who clearly aren't up to the job of protecting the people of this country (and the rest of the world), from this catachable virus!

God help us all!!!
whoo bloke on the radio , must be true then
so not the Guardian or the Mirror or sky
 

Life with the Lions

Well-known member
Taiwan now seeing a rise in cases following their admission that border closures and quarantine are not enough. Anyone who thinks that this approach would work in the UK is mental. Taiwan is in a perpetual state of military emergency and has a very law-abiding and compliant population. The OB's strict measures here lasted about 3 days and stopped when they were reminded by Patel that stopping people and asking them where they are going is not British.

No doubt we must improve our border security. But you can't keep a virus out for ever. Vaccination is the way forward.
Agreed.

Vaccination is the way forward, and it’s more than helping save lives. However, had Johnson closed the UK borders last November, when he and the rest of the world knew the virus was spreading from China, the UK might have lost a hell of a lot less people!
 

tony_dolby

Well-known member
Agreed.

Vaccination is the way forward, and it’s more than helping save lives. However, had Johnson closed the UK borders last November, when he and the rest of the world knew the virus was spreading from China, the UK might have lost a hell of a lot less people!

Possibly. However, both SAGE and NERVTAG advised strongly against closing the borders. Johnson was merely following their advice.
 

Fashthebash

Active member
Eventually when we’re all vacced and have top up jabs we’ll have to go for it. Third world counties ( apart from Scotland) will always have diseases, it will become part of life
 

Life with the Lions

Well-known member
Possibly. However, both SAGE and NERVTAG advised strongly against closing the borders. Johnson was merely following their advice.
I get that Johnson was following the scientist’s advice, but what was their reason for not wanting the borders shut? Did they think it was unlikely that the virus would spread to the UK, and told Johnson this, and he went with their advice? If so, then that was a massive risk to just sit back and do nothing, which they did from November 2019, when news hit worldwide about this virus, to March 2020, when Johnson put the UK into its first lockdown.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and we can all be right after the event, but I just find it hard to believe that the scientists wouldn’t have erred on the side of caution regarding this virus! Even before March 2020, both the scientists and Johnson were aware that the virus was infecting other countries, so they must have realised at some point that it was only a matter of time till the virus hit the UK, so why didn’t someone come up with a plan to stop it getting here?

As soon as the UK Government knew that this virus was spreading, the plan should have been to stop all flights coming in and going out of any UK airports. The same for the cruise ships and ferries coming in and going out of the ports. Those Britons stranded at that time in foreign countries, would be told they must stay there and the Government would pay all their expenses until it was deemed safe to bring them back home!

The cost for the Government to do this, along with furloughing and paying all the airline, cruise, ferry and travel agent workers, would have been much, much less than what they eventually had to pay out for! Better for just these four companies to suffer hardship during the lockdowns, compared to all the companies that eventually went broke and went out of business, with people losing their jobs and suffering from mental health issues, much of which was brought on because of the isolation everyone felt and suffered from!

I‘m not saying for one moment that closing the borders would have stopped the virus from ever getting to our shores, but it would have taken a lot longer to take hold of the population who did eventually catch it, and the hundred thousand + who sadly died from it! There would have been more time to get all the PPE in and ready, thereby helping to protect the NHS nurses and staff, and all operations could have continued, whether they were life threatening or not!

I don’t blame Labour, the Liberals or the SNP for this disaster! I don’t even blame the majority of Tory MP’s! The three I ultimately blame are the scientists, for having too much control in the final decision making, Matt Hancock, who has never looked comfortable or competent in his role of Health Secretary, and Boris Johnson, for not acting decisively and quickly enough at the start of this pandemic! As our Prime Minister, both he and his cabinet should be aware that, “the first aim of Government is to secure the right to life; this comprehends the safety of fellow citizens as regards one another and the self-preservation of the country!“

In that, I personally believe that Boris Johnson has failed in that aim to secure the right to life, and that some of his decisions, as well as those made by Matt Hancock, has resulted in the lives of many thousands of people in the UK, contracting Covid needlessly. Thankfully, for many who contracted the virus, they made complete recoveries, with no ill effects afterwards, but others were not so lucky, and these people will suffer the damaging effects of Covid for the rest of their lives!

Even sadder is that over a quarter of a million people have died from contracting the virus, and I just hope that when this independent inquiry on Covid is released next year, all that has happened during the pandemic can be read and if, mistakes were made, then those responsible should be held accountable for their actions.

For those in the families that were hit by Covid, whether still suffering, dead or alive, they deserve to know what really happened! Hopefully, this report will give them what they really want to know!
 

tony_dolby

Well-known member
The 'official' stance is this:
The minutes suggest that, at this early stage in the pandemic, consideration had not yet been given to quarantining arrivals. The minutes also state that “NERVTAG does not advise port of entry screening, irrespective of the current limited understanding of the epidemiology”. This advice was supported by SAGE on the basis that “Temperature and other forms of screening are unlikely to be of value and have high false positive and false negative rates”.

I'm not an epidemiologist or a even a virologist, but the problems with temperature screening are well known. It's also a fact that border closures themselves and quarantine don't work unless your country has traditionally strong borders (we don't, disgracefully) and is willing is instigate draconian lockdown measures (our country pretty much rejected these when the OB started them).

Border closures might slow the arrival of new variants, but they won't eliminate them. The Indian variant might well have arisen in Chipping Norton rather than Delhi. If we'd sequenced it first here in the UK (likely as our screening is pretty much the envy of the world) it would be known as the 'Chipping Norton variant'.

There are also serious legal and ethical implications of refusing entry to the UK for UK nationals. If you're closing borders to a virus, this means that they must be completely closed. No entry for medical treatment, visiting dying relatives or anything. No entry for medical personnel, technicians, servicemen and women on leave. This is before we factor in non-UK nationals and food delivery drivers etc. etc. At the early stage we didn't have testing capacity to test arrivals and testing doesn't pick up every positive case.

Perhaps the scientists decided that closing borders would cause more problems than it solves. Over 70% of PPE was imported at this stage. We needed to import chemical precursors for the PCR tests, etc. etc.

The PPE situation is more complicated. We had a huge stockpile of PPE, but it turned out that the pandemic wasn't quite the one that civil servants had prepared for. They were ready for an influenza pandemic in which infected people get obvious symptoms. Not one in which the vast majority of infected people show few symptoms.

There is also the issue of using the wrong PPE. Wearing PPE that's not suitable can make things worse. You trust in it, but it's not doing the job that you think it is. The scientists said in March 2020. ' NERVTAG does not recommend PPE for professional staff exposed to healthy individuals from at-risk areas" SAGE endorsed this advice.'

The govt. has made mistakes. So have scientists, the media and the general public. With few exceptions (many care homes and conspiracy nut-jobs) I think these mistakes were down to a lack of data or a poor interpretation of that data.
 

Stompie

Well-known member
Possibly. However, both SAGE and NERVTAG advised strongly against closing the borders. Johnson was merely following their advice.
Over 12 million people have flown Into this country since the start of 'lockdown'. 1.59 million between January and April this year when we were under the most severe of restrictions. I heard the figure last week on the news stated at over 18 million but I can't find that.


I'm sorry T.D but that Is gross negligence any way you look at It. People were not allowed to see their Mum's, but all and sundry could fly Into the country and then go on their way unopposed.

With advice like that from SAGE and their continued Insistence that International travel has made no difference to our plight (as well as the fact that all their predictions even their best case scenarios are way off the mark) It Is clear to me that they are not fit or capable to have the amount of Influence or power that they have. I do genually doubt, just like most public sector managers or people In positions of Infulence that receiving public funding, that many of these people actually know fuck all short of their own pre-concieved opinions.

As for our Government, Johnson may have been trapped between a rock and a hard place (and obvioulsy he needs the advice of those who are qualified In these sorts of matters), but his and Hancock's continued Insistence of following 'the science' (a devious term as there Is no such definitive thing, It's selected, partial science) has allowed them to constantly and wilfully defer to and hide behind a rediculous amount of these so called 'experts', many of whom are qualified In made up subjects that are designed to sneer at the working class, just so that they (the government) can avoid making the tough but necessary decisions required of them for fear of being held to account for them. For fear of being called nasty names by people who hate them anyway and more concerningly, for the fear of damage to their psudo liberal credentials that are so Important In their left wing metropolitan social circles.

None of these Conservative cabinet members want to stop the flow of foreigners Into this country and Sage gave the Conservatives the chance to keep up their pretence of pretending they are tough about our boarders and Boris gladly snatched at It with both hands.
 
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