Manze v Arments - The Results

Terry_Hurlock

Well-known member
Ladies and Gentleman..

The results are in... now 1st we need to put this in to perspective, battles have broke out over this, people seriously injured.. I know for a fact that the Wigan Semi in house fight at Wembley was Manze v Arments.

Both sides will treat me about as well as school teacher who shows a picture of Mohammed if they lose, so I ask for protection now.

WEBSITE
5 points available
Manze doesn't show individual price and is confusing, Arments a simpler process and prices clear.

Score Arments 4 Manze 2

DELIVERY
5 Points.
Both not quick, but Arments considerably slower. Manze sends email/text updates, Arments doesn't.. That saying just a few hours after receiving the Arments box I got a call from them checking I had delivery (as courier hadn't updated) which was nice.

Score Arments 2 Manze 4

PACKAGING
5 Points.
Both very well packaged in a well sealed polysteyrene bos with plenty of ice bags.
Arments 5 Manze 5

PRICE
15 Points
I got it wrong with Arments as I also sneaked in a couple of fruit pies, so actual pie and Mash (thats 4 pies, a large mash and two large liquors £24.79, similar Manze £28). It should be noted that If you buy larger quantities .. Manze will become much cheaper.
Arments 9 Manze 6

COOKING
Both instructions good and both piss easy to do.. so not bothering to score this. If you can use an oven and a microwave.. you can reheat these.


Now guess which is which?!?!?!?
Manze v Arment.jpg

MASH
20 Points
Ok here we go.. we're on to what really matters... the food!
Arments mash appeared fluffier, but Manze packs more in to a container so its squashed down. Taste wise very little difference, but we all agreed the slightly more fluffy (even after fluffing up the Manze) Arments was probably slightly better... But you could have swapped them around and we probably wouldn't have really noticed... so..
Arments 18 Manze 16

EELS
10 Points
Not purchased this time as Arments not selling them!
I'm not a huge lover of eels (ever since I had a dodgy pot of jellied ones from a pub years ago and was ill for days), but do eat them occasionally and I can say Manze ones are well cooked, soft and full of flavour.
So..
Arments 0 Manze 6

LIQUOR
15 Points.
"Houston we have a problem" Here Arments lets itself down, the liquor was much 'creamier' and had far less parsley and really didn't taste of much at all, so added considerably more chilli vinegar and pepper... Is this a good thing? We didn't think so. Manze's liquor far tastier (and visually looked far more appetising too).
Arments 8 Manze 14

PIES
30 Points
Size - Arments look bigger - but this sad fcker weighed both and the weights were Arments 156g Manze 153g.. it seemed weird that they were virtually the same, but on closer inspection, Arments pies have larger 'lids' while Manze are deeper so have slightly more meat..
I you like pastry.. you'll get more with Arments, if you like meat you'll get a little more with Manze.

Now we all know about Wippa's views on the gravy added to Manze's pies, but the pies were nothing like what Wippa's picture shows with Gravy oozing out. When on plate mixed with liquor and the mash the quantity of 'ooze' was very similar between them, with Manze being a little browner because of the gravy I suppose.

But Taste you say?!?!?

Well here it is..... Arments pies taste a lot nicer, far more meaty than Manze and quite noticeable too. I can't lie, the taste is to die for...

Arments 28 Manze 20

SO THE FINAL SCORES And I honestly haven't added the scores up until I'm writing this.......

Arments 74 Manze 73. Shit I thought Manze had won!


In summary... Buy your pies in Arments, your liquor in Manze and Mash from either... If you're a skin flint and buying a few pies, use Arments.... for big orders use Manze due to their quantity discounts.

Or in short - South London has the best P&M shops in the World... we're lucky to have them both.
 
Last edited:

Terry_Hurlock

Well-known member
And as I have lots left, I'm having an Arments pie, with Manze liquor for lunch in a minute.... (and whichever mash is open/I have more of).
 

Wippa

Well-known member
Ladies and Gentleman..

The results are in... now 1st we need to put this in to perspective, battles have broke out over this, people seriously injured.. I know for a fact that the Wigan Semi in house fight at Wembley was Manze v Arments.

Both sides will treat me about as well as school teacher who shows a picture of Mohammed if they lose, so I ask for protection now.

WEBSITE
5 points available
Manze doesn't show individual price and is confusing, Arments a simpler process and prices clear.

Score Arments 4 Manze 2

DELIVERY
5 Points.
Both not quick, but Arments considerably slower. Manze sends email/text updates, Arments doesn't.. That saying just a few hours after receiving the Arments box I got a call from them checking I had delivery (as courier hadn't updated) which was nice.

Score Arments 2 Manze 4

PACKAGING
5 Points.
Both very well packaged in a well sealed polysteyrene bos with plenty of ice bags.
Arments 5 Manze 5

PRICE
15 Points
I got it wrong with Arments as I also sneaked in a couple of fruit pies, so actual pie and Mash (thats 4 pies, a large mash and two large liquors £24.79, similar Manze £28). It should be noted that If you buy larger quantities .. Manze will become much cheaper.
Arments 9 Manze 6

COOKING
Both instructions good and both piss easy to do.. so not bothering to score this. If you can use an oven and a microwave.. you can reheat these.


Now guess which is which?!?!?!?
View attachment 12365

MASH
20 Points
Ok here we go.. we're on to what really matters... the food!
Arments mash appeared fluffier, but Manze packs more in to a container so its squashed down. Taste wise very little difference, but we all agreed the slightly more fluffy (even after fluffing up the Manze) Arments was probably slightly better... But you could have swapped them around and we probably wouldn't have really noticed... so..
Arments 18 Manze 16

EELS
10 Points
Not purchased this time as Arments not selling them!
I'm not a huge lover of eels (ever since I had a dodgy pot of jellied ones from a pub years ago and was ill for days), but do eat them occasionally and I can say Manze ones are well cooked, soft and full of flavour.
So..
Arments 0 Manze 6

LIQUOR
15 Points.
"Houston we have a problem" Here Arments lets itself down, the liquor was much 'creamier' and had far less parsley and really didn't taste of much at all, so added considerably more chilli vinegar and pepper... Is this a good thing? We didn't think so. Manze's liquor far tastier (and visually looked far more appetising too).
Arments 8 Manze 14

PIES
30 Points
Size - Arments look bigger - but this sad fcker weighed both and the weights were Arments 156g Manze 153g.. it seemed weird that they were virtually the same, but on closer inspection, Arments pies have larger 'lids' while Manze are deeper so have slightly more meat..
I you like pastry.. you'll get more with Arments, if you like meat you'll get a little more with Manze.

Now we all know about Wippa's views on the gravy added to Manze's pies, but the pies were nothing like what Wippa's picture shows with Gravy oozing out. When on plate mixed with liquor and the mash the quantity of 'ooze' was very similar between them, with Manze being a little browner because of the gravy I suppose. But Taste you say?!?!?

Well here it is..... Arments pies taste a lot nicer, far more meaty than Manze and quite noticeable too. I can't lie, the taste is to die for...

Arments 28 Manze 20

SO THE FINAL SCORES And I honestly haven't added the scores up until I'm writing this.......

Arments 74 Manze 73. Shit I thought Manze had won!


In summary... Buy your pies in Arments, your liquor in Manze and Mash from either... If you're a skin flint and buying a few pies, use Arments.... for big orders use Manze due to their quantity discounts.

Or in short - South London has the best P&M shops in the World... we're luckily to have them both.
I am so f**king happy!! I’ve been worried about this since your announcement! TH you’re a star. Favourite poster on here. And no I’m not fickle. 😆
Get in the Arments boy!!
 

Wippa

Well-known member
I like the fact that arments won if you just add up the pie mash and liquor alone score and nothing else. Cos that’s what it’s all about to me.
Re the gravy in Manzes pies, they may have actually reduced that, because a big thing was made about it on the pie mash appreciation page on Facebook (by me) and the bloke who makes them admitted they put a lot of gravy in the pies, or ‘browning’ as he called it. Maybe they’ve lessened it since then?
As for the liquor, I actually agree with you there, Manzes liquor probably edges it, but I love the taste of the chilli vinegar and pepper so it doesn’t bother me too much that arments liquor doesn’t have as much flavour.
The pies to me are second to none. Proper traditional Pie mash pies, quite unique these days as so few pie mash shops make them in the traditional way.
 

BrianLion

Well-known member
Ladies and Gentleman..

The results are in... now 1st we need to put this in to perspective, battles have broke out over this, people seriously injured.. I know for a fact that the Wigan Semi in house fight at Wembley was Manze v Arments.

Both sides will treat me about as well as school teacher who shows a picture of Mohammed if they lose, so I ask for protection now.

WEBSITE
5 points available
Manze doesn't show individual price and is confusing, Arments a simpler process and prices clear.

Score Arments 4 Manze 2

DELIVERY
5 Points.
Both not quick, but Arments considerably slower. Manze sends email/text updates, Arments doesn't.. That saying just a few hours after receiving the Arments box I got a call from them checking I had delivery (as courier hadn't updated) which was nice.

Score Arments 2 Manze 4

PACKAGING
5 Points.
Both very well packaged in a well sealed polysteyrene bos with plenty of ice bags.
Arments 5 Manze 5

PRICE
15 Points
I got it wrong with Arments as I also sneaked in a couple of fruit pies, so actual pie and Mash (thats 4 pies, a large mash and two large liquors £24.79, similar Manze £28). It should be noted that If you buy larger quantities .. Manze will become much cheaper.
Arments 9 Manze 6

COOKING
Both instructions good and both piss easy to do.. so not bothering to score this. If you can use an oven and a microwave.. you can reheat these.


Now guess which is which?!?!?!?
View attachment 12365

MASH
20 Points
Ok here we go.. we're on to what really matters... the food!
Arments mash appeared fluffier, but Manze packs more in to a container so its squashed down. Taste wise very little difference, but we all agreed the slightly more fluffy (even after fluffing up the Manze) Arments was probably slightly better... But you could have swapped them around and we probably wouldn't have really noticed... so..
Arments 18 Manze 16

EELS
10 Points
Not purchased this time as Arments not selling them!
I'm not a huge lover of eels (ever since I had a dodgy pot of jellied ones from a pub years ago and was ill for days), but do eat them occasionally and I can say Manze ones are well cooked, soft and full of flavour.
So..
Arments 0 Manze 6

LIQUOR
15 Points.
"Houston we have a problem" Here Arments lets itself down, the liquor was much 'creamier' and had far less parsley and really didn't taste of much at all, so added considerably more chilli vinegar and pepper... Is this a good thing? We didn't think so. Manze's liquor far tastier (and visually looked far more appetising too).
Arments 8 Manze 14

PIES
30 Points
Size - Arments look bigger - but this sad fcker weighed both and the weights were Arments 156g Manze 153g.. it seemed weird that they were virtually the same, but on closer inspection, Arments pies have larger 'lids' while Manze are deeper so have slightly more meat..
I you like pastry.. you'll get more with Arments, if you like meat you'll get a little more with Manze.

Now we all know about Wippa's views on the gravy added to Manze's pies, but the pies were nothing like what Wippa's picture shows with Gravy oozing out. When on plate mixed with liquor and the mash the quantity of 'ooze' was very similar between them, with Manze being a little browner because of the gravy I suppose. But Taste you say?!?!?

Well here it is..... Arments pies taste a lot nicer, far more meaty than Manze and quite noticeable too. I can't lie, the taste is to die for...

Arments 28 Manze 20

SO THE FINAL SCORES And I honestly haven't added the scores up until I'm writing this.......

Arments 74 Manze 73. Shit I thought Manze had won!


In summary... Buy your pies in Arments, your liquor in Manze and Mash from either... If you're a skin flint and buying a few pies, use Arments.... for big orders use Manze due to their quantity discounts.

Or in short - South London has the best P&M shops in the World... we're luckily to have them both.
Genius, lot of time and effort very comprehensive!! Job for you as a food critic on Marsterchef!
 

Lion of rotherhithe

Well-known member
Although I wholeheartedly disagree with the outcome as manzes is far far better than arments I will graciously accept your decision, I will not stoop to the arments brigades tactics of criticism and slander and put up fake news videos, I shall remain calm (breathe breathe) I shall show respect in defeat................................where you from sutton/surrey where ever, what the fuck do you know about pie mash I declare this decision null and void I want another opinion (one than suits my opinion) and now you've set them two off, will never hear the end of it🙄🙄 you know who I mean, what they called nippa and the other one loowacker or something, you're all cunts (sorry mama but we'll deserved in this instance) how do you block people on here😡😡 oh don't worry I'm off, thats it I'm leaving this forum full of know nothing idiots, or I might just stay 😁
Ladies and Gentleman..

The results are in... now 1st we need to put this in to perspective, battles have broke out over this, people seriously injured.. I know for a fact that the Wigan Semi in house fight at Wembley was Manze v Arments.

Both sides will treat me about as well as school teacher who shows a picture of Mohammed if they lose, so I ask for protection now.

WEBSITE
5 points available
Manze doesn't show individual price and is confusing, Arments a simpler process and prices clear.

Score Arments 4 Manze 2

DELIVERY
5 Points.
Both not quick, but Arments considerably slower. Manze sends email/text updates, Arments doesn't.. That saying just a few hours after receiving the Arments box I got a call from them checking I had delivery (as courier hadn't updated) which was nice.

Score Arments 2 Manze 4

PACKAGING
5 Points.
Both very well packaged in a well sealed polysteyrene bos with plenty of ice bags.
Arments 5 Manze 5

PRICE
15 Points
I got it wrong with Arments as I also sneaked in a couple of fruit pies, so actual pie and Mash (thats 4 pies, a large mash and two large liquors £24.79, similar Manze £28). It should be noted that If you buy larger quantities .. Manze will become much cheaper.
Arments 9 Manze 6

COOKING
Both instructions good and both piss easy to do.. so not bothering to score this. If you can use an oven and a microwave.. you can reheat these.


Now guess which is which?!?!?!?
View attachment 12365

MASH
20 Points
Ok here we go.. we're on to what really matters... the food!
Arments mash appeared fluffier, but Manze packs more in to a container so its squashed down. Taste wise very little difference, but we all agreed the slightly more fluffy (even after fluffing up the Manze) Arments was probably slightly better... But you could have swapped them around and we probably wouldn't have really noticed... so..
Arments 18 Manze 16

EELS
10 Points
Not purchased this time as Arments not selling them!
I'm not a huge lover of eels (ever since I had a dodgy pot of jellied ones from a pub years ago and was ill for days), but do eat them occasionally and I can say Manze ones are well cooked, soft and full of flavour.
So..
Arments 0 Manze 6

LIQUOR
15 Points.
"Houston we have a problem" Here Arments lets itself down, the liquor was much 'creamier' and had far less parsley and really didn't taste of much at all, so added considerably more chilli vinegar and pepper... Is this a good thing? We didn't think so. Manze's liquor far tastier (and visually looked far more appetising too).
Arments 8 Manze 14

PIES
30 Points
Size - Arments look bigger - but this sad fcker weighed both and the weights were Arments 156g Manze 153g.. it seemed weird that they were virtually the same, but on closer inspection, Arments pies have larger 'lids' while Manze are deeper so have slightly more meat..
I you like pastry.. you'll get more with Arments, if you like meat you'll get a little more with Manze.

Now we all know about Wippa's views on the gravy added to Manze's pies, but the pies were nothing like what Wippa's picture shows with Gravy oozing out. When on plate mixed with liquor and the mash the quantity of 'ooze' was very similar between them, with Manze being a little browner because of the gravy I suppose. But Taste you say?!?!?

Well here it is..... Arments pies taste a lot nicer, far more meaty than Manze and quite noticeable too. I can't lie, the taste is to die for...

Arments 28 Manze 20

SO THE FINAL SCORES And I honestly haven't added the scores up until I'm writing this.......

Arments 74 Manze 73. Shit I thought Manze had won!


In summary... Buy your pies in Arments, your liquor in Manze and Mash from either... If you're a skin flint and buying a few pies, use Arments.... for big orders use Manze due to their quantity discounts.

Or in short - South London has the best P&M shops in the World... we're luckily to have them both.
 

E1 Wall

Well-known member
Ladies and Gentleman..

The results are in... now 1st we need to put this in to perspective, battles have broke out over this, people seriously injured.. I know for a fact that the Wigan Semi in house fight at Wembley was Manze v Arments.

Both sides will treat me about as well as school teacher who shows a picture of Mohammed if they lose, so I ask for protection now.

WEBSITE
5 points available
Manze doesn't show individual price and is confusing, Arments a simpler process and prices clear.

Score Arments 4 Manze 2

DELIVERY
5 Points.
Both not quick, but Arments considerably slower. Manze sends email/text updates, Arments doesn't.. That saying just a few hours after receiving the Arments box I got a call from them checking I had delivery (as courier hadn't updated) which was nice.

Score Arments 2 Manze 4

PACKAGING
5 Points.
Both very well packaged in a well sealed polysteyrene bos with plenty of ice bags.
Arments 5 Manze 5

PRICE
15 Points
I got it wrong with Arments as I also sneaked in a couple of fruit pies, so actual pie and Mash (thats 4 pies, a large mash and two large liquors £24.79, similar Manze £28). It should be noted that If you buy larger quantities .. Manze will become much cheaper.
Arments 9 Manze 6

COOKING
Both instructions good and both piss easy to do.. so not bothering to score this. If you can use an oven and a microwave.. you can reheat these.


Now guess which is which?!?!?!?
View attachment 12365

MASH
20 Points
Ok here we go.. we're on to what really matters... the food!
Arments mash appeared fluffier, but Manze packs more in to a container so its squashed down. Taste wise very little difference, but we all agreed the slightly more fluffy (even after fluffing up the Manze) Arments was probably slightly better... But you could have swapped them around and we probably wouldn't have really noticed... so..
Arments 18 Manze 16

EELS
10 Points
Not purchased this time as Arments not selling them!
I'm not a huge lover of eels (ever since I had a dodgy pot of jellied ones from a pub years ago and was ill for days), but do eat them occasionally and I can say Manze ones are well cooked, soft and full of flavour.
So..
Arments 0 Manze 6

LIQUOR
15 Points.
"Houston we have a problem" Here Arments lets itself down, the liquor was much 'creamier' and had far less parsley and really didn't taste of much at all, so added considerably more chilli vinegar and pepper... Is this a good thing? We didn't think so. Manze's liquor far tastier (and visually looked far more appetising too).
Arments 8 Manze 14

PIES
30 Points
Size - Arments look bigger - but this sad fcker weighed both and the weights were Arments 156g Manze 153g.. it seemed weird that they were virtually the same, but on closer inspection, Arments pies have larger 'lids' while Manze are deeper so have slightly more meat..
I you like pastry.. you'll get more with Arments, if you like meat you'll get a little more with Manze.

Now we all know about Wippa's views on the gravy added to Manze's pies, but the pies were nothing like what Wippa's picture shows with Gravy oozing out. When on plate mixed with liquor and the mash the quantity of 'ooze' was very similar between them, with Manze being a little browner because of the gravy I suppose. But Taste you say?!?!?

Well here it is..... Arments pies taste a lot nicer, far more meaty than Manze and quite noticeable too. I can't lie, the taste is to die for...

Arments 28 Manze 20

SO THE FINAL SCORES And I honestly haven't added the scores up until I'm writing this.......

Arments 74 Manze 73. Shit I thought Manze had won!


In summary... Buy your pies in Arments, your liquor in Manze and Mash from either... If you're a skin flint and buying a few pies, use Arments.... for big orders use Manze due to their quantity discounts.

Or in short - South London has the best P&M shops in the World... we're luckily to have them both.
Arments on the right of the picture above
 

whiskylion

Well-known member
Ladies and Gentleman..

The results are in... now 1st we need to put this in to perspective, battles have broke out over this, people seriously injured.. I know for a fact that the Wigan Semi in house fight at Wembley was Manze v Arments.

Both sides will treat me about as well as school teacher who shows a picture of Mohammed if they lose, so I ask for protection now.

WEBSITE
5 points available
Manze doesn't show individual price and is confusing, Arments a simpler process and prices clear.

Score Arments 4 Manze 2

DELIVERY
5 Points.
Both not quick, but Arments considerably slower. Manze sends email/text updates, Arments doesn't.. That saying just a few hours after receiving the Arments box I got a call from them checking I had delivery (as courier hadn't updated) which was nice.

Score Arments 2 Manze 4

PACKAGING
5 Points.
Both very well packaged in a well sealed polysteyrene bos with plenty of ice bags.
Arments 5 Manze 5

PRICE
15 Points
I got it wrong with Arments as I also sneaked in a couple of fruit pies, so actual pie and Mash (thats 4 pies, a large mash and two large liquors £24.79, similar Manze £28). It should be noted that If you buy larger quantities .. Manze will become much cheaper.
Arments 9 Manze 6

COOKING
Both instructions good and both piss easy to do.. so not bothering to score this. If you can use an oven and a microwave.. you can reheat these.


Now guess which is which?!?!?!?
View attachment 12365

MASH
20 Points
Ok here we go.. we're on to what really matters... the food!
Arments mash appeared fluffier, but Manze packs more in to a container so its squashed down. Taste wise very little difference, but we all agreed the slightly more fluffy (even after fluffing up the Manze) Arments was probably slightly better... But you could have swapped them around and we probably wouldn't have really noticed... so..
Arments 18 Manze 16

EELS
10 Points
Not purchased this time as Arments not selling them!
I'm not a huge lover of eels (ever since I had a dodgy pot of jellied ones from a pub years ago and was ill for days), but do eat them occasionally and I can say Manze ones are well cooked, soft and full of flavour.
So..
Arments 0 Manze 6

LIQUOR
15 Points.
"Houston we have a problem" Here Arments lets itself down, the liquor was much 'creamier' and had far less parsley and really didn't taste of much at all, so added considerably more chilli vinegar and pepper... Is this a good thing? We didn't think so. Manze's liquor far tastier (and visually looked far more appetising too).
Arments 8 Manze 14

PIES
30 Points
Size - Arments look bigger - but this sad fcker weighed both and the weights were Arments 156g Manze 153g.. it seemed weird that they were virtually the same, but on closer inspection, Arments pies have larger 'lids' while Manze are deeper so have slightly more meat..
I you like pastry.. you'll get more with Arments, if you like meat you'll get a little more with Manze.

Now we all know about Wippa's views on the gravy added to Manze's pies, but the pies were nothing like what Wippa's picture shows with Gravy oozing out. When on plate mixed with liquor and the mash the quantity of 'ooze' was very similar between them, with Manze being a little browner because of the gravy I suppose. But Taste you say?!?!?

Well here it is..... Arments pies taste a lot nicer, far more meaty than Manze and quite noticeable too. I can't lie, the taste is to die for...

Arments 28 Manze 20

SO THE FINAL SCORES And I honestly haven't added the scores up until I'm writing this.......

Arments 74 Manze 73. Shit I thought Manze had won!


In summary... Buy your pies in Arments, your liquor in Manze and Mash from either... If you're a skin flint and buying a few pies, use Arments.... for big orders use Manze due to their quantity discounts.

Or in short - South London has the best P&M shops in the World... we're luckily to have them both.
If we just strip down to the bones, the pie and mash score was:
Arments 54 Manzies 50.

I would say this a clear victory for the The Ivy of Westmoreland Road.

Great work, TH, and thank you for embracing Whisky Bible-like honesty. Well done!
 

unit4

Well-known member
:shake:Right,heres my take...pie&mash..yuck
STEAK pie and mash..yummy. (Oh,with thick beef gravy)
Even being a Pecham lad I never did like mincemeat pies,and that jar of sick..uurgI'll get my tin hat on
 

Terry_Hurlock

Well-known member
If we just strip down to the bones, the pie and mash score was:
Arments 54 Manzies 50.

I would say this a clear victory for the The Ivy of Westmoreland Road.

Great work, TH, and thank you for embracing Whisky Bible-like honesty. Well done!
The thing is Whisky... The Pie is the king and deserves a bigger points allocation than the liquor and mash. But I personally would choose Manze because Arments liquor (in my humble one) was not a patch on Manze's, so the 'full package' works better with Manze, which my score couldn't reflect.

That saying, if someone said to me lets go for an Arment's.. I'd be down Westmoreland Rd quicker than you could say "crap liquor"..... because those pies are absolutely gorgeous.

I can also confirm after my lunch that Arments pies and Manze Liquor together really is the perfect P&M