Clue to where we are going ?

Peckham Lion

Well-known member
It doesn’t really make sense nor is it feasible. Lateral flow testing will be the way forward, not a bloody passport/ID Card.

I can see us requiring people to have been vaccinated before they come here. There are many many countries lagging behind with their vaccinations, there will be countries with poor uptake and crap administration - do we want to allow people in to this country from countries where their infrastructure is poor, at the risk of carrying over some sort of new variant?
What about people here that will refuse it, what would you do with them?
 

Peckham Lion

Well-known member
I can't see countries like Spain or Greece refusing entry to
hoards of British holiday makers because they have'nt got
a vaccination passport. It would severely damage their
tourist industry.
Not really. Who's going to miss mainly groups of youngsters coming to get pissed up and clogging up there hospitals and cells?
 

Peckham Lion

Well-known member
This mentailty taking route In people, that people should be forced to do things against their will or be ostricised from society, Is extremely troubling and deeply disturbing.
Yet it happens everyday, i don't want to be filmed along with my kids and mates watching a game of football but we are, it's wrong, but i have the choice not to go. I don't want to use credit or debit cards to pay for things in a cashless shop i have no choice if i want to make a purchase, i choose not to go in to that shop.
 

Stompie

Well-known member
Yet it happens everyday, i don't want to be filmed along with my kids and mates watching a game of football but we are, it's wrong, but i have the choice not to go. I don't want to use credit or debit cards to pay for things in a cashless shop i have no choice if i want to make a purchase, i choose not to go in to that shop.
That's completely different to having something Injected Into your arm though and being told that society Is closed to you unless you comply. That Is an Infringement on the law of this country for a start.

When people said In the summer that vaccinations would be forced upon people they were labelled conspiracy theorists and nutters.

Now It seems like It could become a reality, the fundamental rights of those people are being cast aside and they are accused of being selfish, Ignorant and dangerous for not complying by those that told them they were wrong for believing It possible. Where Is the concern about all the moral and ethical Implications It will have?

Regardless of belief In the vaccine or ones Intention to have It. People must see that by forcing people to have the vaccines goes against the grain of this country, the freedoms that this country has worked and fought for and It also sets dangerous presidents for the future.

People should be very concered about our liberties and how they seem to be being taken away from us. You can't pick and choose as and when they are Important. It doesn't work like that. Once this Is forced upon us what Is next? Because something will always be next. I understand peoples desire to have the vaccine and I support their decision to do so, but changing the moral fabric of this country and the rights of the British citizen will only have a negative effect on our way of lives and unleslead to a society similar to that of 1984.
 
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Peckham Lion

Well-known member
That's completely different to having something Injected Into your arm though and being told that society Is closed to you unless you comply. That Is an Infringement on the law of this country for a start.

When people said In the summer that vaccinations would be forced upon people they were labelled conspiracy theorists and nutters.

Now It seems like It could become a reality, the fundamental rights of those people are being cast aside and they are accused of being selfish, Ignorant and dangerous for not complying by those that told them they were wrong for believing It possible. Where Is the concern about all the moral and ethical Implications It will have?

Regardless of belief In the vaccine or ones Intention to have It. People must see that by forcing people to have the vaccines goes against the grain of this country, the freedoms that this country has worked and fought for and It also sets dangerous presidents for the future.

People should be very concered about our liberties and how they seem to be being taken away from us. You can't pick and choose as and when they are Important. It doesn't work like that. Once this Is forced upon us what Is next? Because something will always be next. I understand peoples desire to have the vaccine and I support their decision to do so, but changing the moral fabric of this country and the rights of the British citizen will only have a negative effect on our way of lives and unleslead to a society similar to that of 1984.
I'll get back to this tomorrow, mate. I'm going to have puff now and my brain will swell, to many words to take in right now mate!
 

tony_dolby

Well-known member
"Regardless of belief In the vaccine or ones Intention to have It. People must see that by forcing people to have the vaccines goes against the grain of this country, the freedoms that this country has worked and fought for and It also sets dangerous presidents for the future."

This. It's also counter-productive. The way to get people to be vaccinated is to vaccinate lots of people. Eventually, many sceptical people will realize that it's safe. You'll never convince the nutters, but then facts are not their stock in trade.

However, I don't think for a minute that the govt. will be able to mandate domestic Covid vaccination 'passports'. They will be need for foreign travel though as airlines will be shit-scared of being sued by passengers. Other countries will want to know that someone entering has been vaccinated.

The whole idea of showing a vaccination certificate at pubs and clubs is laughable. Unless you set up a multi-billion pound department to ensure security, people will be printing them off at home. You could try an App, but that didn't work out too well last time did it!

Most importantly, a vaccination certificate DOES NOT prove that you can't spread coronavirus. It means that you are protected to a large extent from serious symptoms. Your risk of transmitting the virus is only reduced not eliminated. In other words, you could still have a the virus spreading within a group of 200 drinkers all of whom have been vaccinated.

The only real way to prove that someone does not have the virus is to perform a PCR test, but does anyone really want to wait outside the pub for 36 hours whilst it is processed? Lateral flow tests are excellent at picking up positives, but they have a huge false negative rate. They won't ensure a 'COVID-free' event either. The only way is to devise a rapid test that is instant and 90% accurate and specific. This ain't going to happen any time soon.
 

Stompie

Well-known member
"Regardless of belief In the vaccine or ones Intention to have It. People must see that by forcing people to have the vaccines goes against the grain of this country, the freedoms that this country has worked and fought for and It also sets dangerous presidents for the future."

This. It's also counter-productive. The way to get people to be vaccinated is to vaccinate lots of people. Eventually, many sceptical people will realize that it's safe. You'll never convince the nutters, but then facts are not their stock in trade.

However, I don't think for a minute that the govt. will be able to mandate domestic Covid vaccination 'passports'. They will be need for foreign travel though as airlines will be shit-scared of being sued by passengers. Other countries will want to know that someone entering has been vaccinated.

The whole idea of showing a vaccination certificate at pubs and clubs is laughable. Unless you set up a multi-billion pound department to ensure security, people will be printing them off at home. You could try an App, but that didn't work out too well last time did it!

Most importantly, a vaccination certificate DOES NOT prove that you can't spread coronavirus. It means that you are protected to a large extent from serious symptoms. Your risk of transmitting the virus is only reduced not eliminated. In other words, you could still have a the virus spreading within a group of 200 drinkers all of whom have been vaccinated.

The only real way to prove that someone does not have the virus is to perform a PCR test, but does anyone really want to wait outside the pub for 36 hours whilst it is processed? Lateral flow tests are excellent at picking up positives, but they have a huge false negative rate. They won't ensure a 'COVID-free' event either. The only way is to devise a rapid test that is instant and 90% accurate and specific. This ain't going to happen any time soon.
Personally I can't see how It's viable. Would the government then be able force vaccinations on children, such as the MMR jab, by telling parents their kids will not be able to attend nurseries and play grounds If they don't have It? Bit far fetched I know but once the door has been opened and people have their sensibilities changed (even for a legitimate reason) these things have a way of creeping through society and peoples resolve and resistance dilutes.

With regards to testing out side pubs or clubs, or even sporting venues, even If the lateral flow was a viable way of getting a accurate result, can you Imagine the carnage of testing several hundred people. When you have 10,000 plus at a sporting event there Is no chance of getting even 10% tested before It's time to go home.

Some geezer on the radio last week was talking about the testing of people before entering events. He worked at a university and his area of expertise was In the realms of testing or vaccines, something like that. Anyway he said that he was testing at his uni last year as part of a study and claimed that to test all of the students, some 9,000 of them, It took 10 days to do with something like 20 staff working on It all day.

There Is no chance It's feasible. Either this vaccine works and people will be spared the worst effects of the virus or we are all fucked untill It's worked It's way through the population and weakens naturally.
 

Wippa

Well-known member
Not really. Who's going to miss mainly groups of youngsters coming to get pissed up and clogging up there hospitals and cells?
The money the youngsters spend far outweighs the agg they bring by boozing too much.
Most of the resorts aren’t like that anymore anyway. Veronicas in Tenerife circa 1996 compared to Veronicas in Tenerife 2021 are two completely different worlds.
A lot of the resorts are the same, there’s time curfews in place, special licences and they’ve been cleaned up. And another thing, and people won’t like to admit it on here, but millennials are far less boozy and loutish than the generations that came before them. And yep, I include myself in that 😆